the journey from ... X to Y .. from ice to sea....
The first condition to be a disciple.
the student who wants to know the truth must give up all desires for gain in this world or in the life to come ...what comes to mind is the question ..
what is truth.. ?
as long as desire creeps into the mind we cannot see the truth...as long as there is desire in our hearts there is no place for truth.. there might be a life better but there is also less truth in it..
a rich man understand less truth than a poor..
the disciple ..should say
" i don't care for anything in this life nor for all the heavens that have existed"
" i refuse to believe that i am just flesh and blood.. "
renunciate everything .. this is the first condition..
Second
control of the senese internal and external ..and to be established in spiritual virtues
why cause no spirtual knowledge would ...
good and evil are always there.. though many forget that and are overwhelmed by evil..they feel bitter ..
give ur mind to god....
think about a normal person like me
no sooner someone hits me my hand goes to his face and bang... how can i undersand christ..
who said
"Come unto me ,all ye that labour and are heavy laden , and i will give you rest"
keep the spirit in mind ...
.......
third quality is faith in the guru.....
we can read books ,argue and reason .. about god,about salvation about religion ,but none of it is spiritual because spirituality does not exist in theories ,in books or in philosophies..
A guru tells the student " go and sin no more.. " and no more can he sin...no more the person has the power to sin..you and i are just hollow talk not teachers..
We disturb the world with our thoughts and bad vibrations ..we hope we pray we struggle on..
..
silence is the method of the teacher..
what kind of belief will not do..?
Consider a man born in america 1900 years after christ .. does not even belong to the same race as Christ..He says Christ is god ..he has not seen Christ nor his family yet He says Jesus was God , if you don't believe it ,you will go to hell..,we might understand disciples of christ believed it ..he was their guru..,but what has this american got to do with the man born 1900 years before him ..what does he know of Jesus..
...
Next condition a disciple must fulfill
conceive an extreme desire to be free..
We are like moths plunging into the fire.. knowing that it will burn us ,knoing the senses only burn us ,that they only enchance desire..
Do we ever ask god free from bondage to senses ..from slavery to desire
instead we pray to him for health and prosperity. for long life..
what is the world but a combination of stomach and sex..?
take these away from them and they will find their lives meaningless...
sometimes i feel this world is full of atheists .. they believe in nothing but the senses....
what happens is we degrade religion to our low level ..and seek matter in the name of spirit
So and so said such and such.. let us try and have fun.. may be my broken leg will straighten.
these are the four conditions for a disciple to fulfill without fulfilling them the disciple cannot come in contact with a true guru..
Airport Talkies
15 years ago
17 comments:
Let me sumamrize this...
4 conditions have been listed down:
the student who wants to know the truth must give up all desires for gain in this world or in the life to come ...
control of the senses internal and external ..and to be established in spiritual virtues
faith in the guru
conceive an extreme desire to be free
Birth is truth...
scriptures say that even the Gods and demigods crave to be born as human beings...as newborns we are most unadulterated and unconditioned...in fact the kundalini energy is at our crown chakra during this period...
gradually we absorb our environs and the negativities around us and lose our purity ...
there is dharma and karma...
dharma is akin to seva and karma is akin to duty...
dharma activities are lifelong while karma activities are in phases or ashramas...brahmacharya, vanaprsatha, grihastha, sanyasa...etc...these are duties which we are supposed to perform...because we have been created for this...
truth is knowing the fact that human beings are endowed with a gift called knowledge..
truth is knowing the fact that as human beings we have the beautiful opportunity of realizing the God within us and others...
truth is you and i
buddha left his family and renunciated all for truth...right?
a question has always bugged me...we have mothers and fathers and wives and husbands who have done a lot for us...
leaving all of them, causing them pain and sadness...is truth worth all this? arent we adding on to our bad karma by doing this? or is it that in our quest for truth our bad karmas would get negated and we will gain moksha? or is it that it is our family members' bad karma that they are going through the pain and sadness?
just a clarification...i am neither contesting nor debating...
this is just a discourse and it is a topic very close to my heart ...
hence my vehemence...
see desires for material gain, sensual desires can be impediments... but desire for truth, desire for freedom, are desires that have to be inside us... if there is no desire then what is the goal of the quest?
PS: the questions are directed to no one in particular...
control of the senses internal and external ..and to be established in spiritual virtues...
i will assume as a working hypothesis that since we are born here we are a part of this world...
let us take a look at the world around us...can we be immune to the occurrences? tomorrow if a loved one was to be in danger can we be 'reactionless'?
what has Lord krishna said to Arjuna in Gita when he laid down his weapons and refused to fight the war?
He said...if in the fight for truth and dharma sansthaapna you have to kill your brothers, your uncles, your guru...then you have to beta...
look at Lord Krishna yaar...10,000 wives is a joke or what...? He is one of the most sensuous Gods...after Lord Shiva of course...
the point here is ... striking a balance...gurus have said that appreciating beauty is not at all bad...because everything is God's creation...
what was Meera's devotion? she loved Krishna as she would love a husband or a lover...she desired him...right?
so if the balance is struck and focus is retained then salvation is round the corner...
"what is the world but a combination of stomach and sex..?
take these away from them and they will find their lives meaningless...
sometimes i feel this world is full of atheists .. they believe in nothing but the senses....
what happens is we degrade religion to our low level ..and seek matter in the name of spirit"
i wonder what has prompted this...
faith in the Guru...
most important.
God and gurus have an uncanny habit of testing the faith of their devotees. particularly those devotees who are the most faithful.
how many times have we cried out to them: WHY ME???? arrey because we are the chosen ones.
when draupadi was being disgraced when did God come to her rescue?
when she SURRENDERED COMPLETELY...
This is called sarvasva sharanaagati...
you cant keep a part of yourself to yourself and expect grace, nai?
so many modern, new life, so-called saints preach spirituality...but are they able to contextualize their teachings with ordinary life?
No unfortunately they are not.
those who have some amount of understanding, who have read who have discussed are able to figure things out. but what of the majority who are totally not aware?
they come out confused and lost as before.
the preacher who is able to bring out parallels between spiritualism and everyday life is the true teacher. s/he need not be a saint or a swami.
scriptures say and u believe ...
.. if u believe in a previous birth... then this is refuted..
what about ailments at birth..
the basis of this to make u understand u are not supposed to anything..
.........
desire ..hehehehe..is desire..
........
i think u should read it again.. ..
what happens is we degrade religion to our low level ..and seek matter in the name of spirit
scriptures say that women and shudras cannot read scriptures...
blind belief is foolishness and signifies ignorance...
BUT....
scriptures are written doctrines that have been given thought and have been arrived at after a lot of meditation...
scriptures have simply been quoted here and not necessarily been believed in. quoting what is written in scriptures is like quoting evidence...
Religion and spirituality are two sides of the same coin. a person who is spiritual need not necessarily be religious.
past life in context with karmas is something that cannot be refuted....hence ailments at birth
but ailments included newborns are pure and true...
resting in the knowledge that without making efforts everything is going to come on its own to you...
what do i say to this? is it arrogance, laziness, misconception...or is it pure belief in one's inner strengths and capabilities...
having said this i would like to mention that there is this person who has been negative throughout his life...bad childhood, lack of affection, valueless, weakness to vices, irreligious, faithless, sceptical...
this person has been chosen and blessed and accepted by a great guru. HOW?
i seriously dont know...and am quite confused. will probably think about this for some more time...
i guess one has to be patient..
ya...it is patience...someone i know keeps harping about patience...
of course...shraddha aur saburi...
faith and patience...
do u know that lord shiva.. is supposed to one who has experienced that corruption of the soul..seen the bad.. unlike the other devas..
..........
valmiki was a dacoit...vishwamitra..was a king who fought with vashistha...
The desires are superior to the senses, the mind is superior to the desires, the intuition (understanding) is superior to the mind, the great Self is superior to the intuition.
Know the Self as Lord of the chariot, the body as the chariot itself, the discriminating intellect as the charioteer, and the mind as the reins. The senses, say the wise, are the horses; selfish desires are the roads they travel.
The self-existent Lord pierced the senses to turn outward. Thus we look to the world outside and see not the Self within us. A sage withdrew his senses from the world of change and, seeking immortality, looked within and beheld the deathless self.
What is here is also there; what is there, is also here. Who sees multiplicity but not the one indivisible Self must wander on and on from death to death.
As pure water poured into pure water becomes the very same, so does the Self of the illumined man or woman verily become one with the Godhead.
In context with karmas and suffering...
quoted by Dalai Lama - (thought that i 'll share this with you)
From a broader perspective, there will always be suffering.
On one level, you are bound to meet with the effects of the unfavorable actions you yourself have previously committed in body, speech or mind.
Then also, your very own nature is that of suffering. There's not just one factor figuring into my attitude, but many different ones.
From the point of view of the actual entity producing the suffering, as I have said, if it is fixable, then there is no need to worry. If not, there is no benefit to worrying.
From the point of view of the cause, suffering is based on past unfavorable actions accumulated by oneself and no other. These karmas are not wasted. They will bear their fruit. One will not meet with the effects of actions that one has not done oneself.
Finally, from the viewpoint of the nature of suffering itself, the aggregates of the mind and body have as their actual nature, suffering. They serve as a basis for suffering. As long as you have them you are susceptible to suffering.
From a deep point of view, while we don't have our independence and are living in someone else's country, we have a certain type of suffering, but when we return to Tibet and gain our independence, then there will be other types of suffering. So, this is just the way it is.
You might think that I'm pessimistic, but I am not. This is how, through Buddhist teaching and advice, we handle situations. When fifty thousand people in the Shakya clan were killed one day, Shakyamuni Buddha, their clansman, didn't suffer at all. He was leaning against a tree, and he was saying, I am a little sad today because fifty thousand of my clansmen were killed? But he, himself, remained unaffected. Like that, you see (laughter). This was the cause and effect of their own karma. There was nothing he could do about it.
These sorts of thoughts make me stronger; more active. It is not at all a case of losing one's strength of mind or will in the face of the pervasive nature of suffering.
(found this very profound and somewhere it does echo your perceptions too...)
though now when i think about it... the above fits in more with your "The Truth of the Cause of Suffering" post...
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